Mondays are when Brandon brings on accomplished and inspiring guests, and to start this week off with a bang he’s invited entrepreneur and podcast host John Lee Dumas. His show, Entrepreneurs On Fire, airs every weekday and is one of the most highly rated entrepreneurial podcasts on the charts right now. In addition, he launched the Podcasters’ Paradise community to help other aspiring hosts get their own shows off the ground.
In this episode, John explains his tips for making a mark in the podcasting world, reveals what he thinks is the weakest aspect of most podcasts, and discusses why being the best may not be as important as being the first.
WHAT PODCAST DO YOU START?
Brandon Birkmeyer: [00:09:20] I think you’ve built something really special in this Fire Community that you’ve built. Tell me about that community and how you’re helping them today. What’s the thing that you help them with the most?
John Lee Dumas: [00:09:39] First off, thank you for having me on the show. I love what you’re building over there with Brands On Brands On Brands. I have little to zero doubt this is going to be a really valuable episode for your listeners.
Let’s get into the business. For me, the more aerial version of your question is going to be, “How do I know what to create for my audience, for my listeners, for Fire Nation?”
ASK YOUR AUDIENCE
The answer is I do things that don’t scale. I get on a call with them and I ask them, “What is your biggest struggle?” I listen, and then I get on a call with another person, doing the same thing and collecting all these guidable data points. Then I hear, and I see, and I categorize their biggest struggles. I decide what should be the next solution that I create for them.
Back in 2013, (when I did that a bunch,) the struggle that a lot of people were having was being passionate about health, yoga, food, gardening or skating, or whatever it might be, but not knowing how to start a podcast around that topic.
I launched a podcasting community called Podcasters’ Paradise, How To Create, Grow, and Monetize Your Own Podcast. That was me providing a solution to a major struggle that my listeners were having.
For anybody that’s listening to this or watching this or whatever it might be, that’s your answer. Go to your people. Create your free, valuable, and consistent content around your passion, your niche, your skills, and your expertise.
Then build an audience around that topic and ask that audience, “What are you struggling with?” Listen to them and then decide what solution you want to provide in the form of a product or a service or a community. That’s the road to success.
LOOK FOR VOIDS TO FILL IN YOUR NICHE
Brandon Birkmeyer: [00:11:24] You had a voice and then you built the products around the people, which is a different model. I’d like to take that back a step. If you had to start as you did and find your voice first, how did you go about doing that? How did you know A) that podcasting was the right platform for you, but B) what to talk about?
John Lee Dumas: [00:12:03] I went to things that I enjoyed. I went to my passions, my interests, my desires, and I looked around and I said, wow, I’m listening to podcasts every single day as I drive to work, as I hit the gym, as I’m going for a walk with my dog.
I’m just consuming podcasts. I love this medium and I connect with it and see why it’s a powerful, powerful form of media. What I wish existed in this medium was daily podcast interviews, so that I could hear a new interview every single day.
It didn’t exist, so I said, that’s a void, that’s a niche that I can fill. Not good at first because of course, I’m not going to be good at something I’d never done before. However, I’m going to put in the reps. I’m going to do it every single day and get a little bit better.
BECOME A PERSON OF VALUE
That’s how I came up with the idea of, “Let me provide value first.” This kind of circles back to my favorite quote by Albert Einstein. “Try not to become a person of success, but rather a person of value.”
That was where I failed the first 32 years of my life. I was chasing success. Where I started to succeed in this world is when I flipped that on its head, listened to that quote, and just became a person of value.
I put out a completely free one minute video, every single day on all the platforms, Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, just a quote, just to inspire people. That’s free, that’s valuable, that’s consistent.
It’s the same thing with my podcast. I’ve been putting out over 2200 podcasts since 2012. That’s free, valuable, consistent content.
FIND OUT WHAT PEOPLE STRUGGLE WITH
I’m just giving this value to the world, building an audience around that and saying, oh, by the way, thank you for first and foremost for being part of my audience, being part of Fire Nation, for listening to this content and finding it valuable.
What are you struggling with? I don’t want to assume what you’re struggling with because I’m probably going to assume incorrectly. You tell me, and then I’ll decide if I want to create a solution to that. Of course, a lot of problems that people have, I don’t want to create solutions for.
Some things I do, and that’s what has turned into the Podcasters’ Paradise community. That’s what turned into the Freedom Journal, the Mastery Journal, the Podcast Journal. All the different things that we’ve done over the years have been a result of that process.
DON’T BECOME A COPY OF SOMEONE ELSE
Brandon Birkmeyer: [00:14:17] What do you think some of the challenges are when you’re starting a podcast?
John Lee Dumas: [00:14:36] The thing is that people oftentimes focus on the wrong target. They say, “Oh, look what John Lee Dumas is doing over here. Look at Pat Flynn over here. Look at Amy Porterfield, and at Lewis House.”
They look at these people who have achieved a certain level of success. They say, “I’m going to go in that immediate direction,” but you have your own unique set of skills, your own unique set of values. You have your own passions, your own excitements.
Trying to recreate our wheel (that we’ve already created) is going to be a tough road to hell because you’re just a different, unique individual person.
Should you learn from people that have come before you? Absolutely. Should you stand upon the shoulders of giants? Of course. I’ve learned from so many people along the way who came before me, who are doing things right now.
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FIND YOUR UNIQUE NICHE
At the end of the day, you got to find your own special, unique niche. Nobody was doing a daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. I was the best number one daily podcast, interviewing entrepreneurs from day one, and I was also the worst. I was also the only daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs.
What can you be the best, the worst, the only at, from day one? That’s your thing.
INTERVIEWS PROVIDE A COLLISION OF IDEAS
Brandon Birkmeyer: [00:15:55] I think there’s some value in finding your voice and honing a perspective. Some of that is just by creating content that you think is interesting on your own, but then you bring in this interview component. Why is that so critical?
John Lee Dumas: [00:16:28] Because the world is a collision of ideas. The world’s a collision of opportunity, a collision of people. It’s a sad place if you’re just living on a mountain top and a little hub by yourself. Some Buddhist monks hypothetically might be happy doing just that, who knows?
HUMANS ARE MEANT TO INTERACT
However, we’re humans. We’re meant to interact, to engage. We’re meant to exchange ideas, to make ourselves better, to get out of our comfort zone, to get different perspectives, and get outside of our own little sandbox. Those are all the reasons.
I bring guests where I don’t agree with a good part of what they say, 10%, 50%, 75%. Some of them, I don’t agree with anything that they say. However, it’s interesting to talk about, to think about, and to maybe have them impact my thinking in a way.
That’s where the collision ideas come to a real valuable conclusion. It’s when you’re able and willing to have an open, honest conversation.
YOU DON’T ALWAYS HAVE TO AGREE
I’m going to be honest with you about the biggest negative in most podcast interviews. I personally don’t like it, but I hear it all the time. Some of your biggest podcasts that you’ll listen to will have someone like Gary Vaynerchuk on the show.
He’ll be on the show with a guest and he’ll be saying his spiel and his shtick. He has the same three or four things that he says, which I completely agree with. (I love what Gary Vaynerchuk preaches and what he talks about.)
Then this guest will just completely conform to everything that Gary was saying. He’s just placating him. The guest will say something and Gary says, “No, no. I don’t agree with that at all.” (I love that Gary does that and disagrees with them.)
Then the guest says, “Let me rephrase what I was trying to say, to make it exactly what you were saying.”
I say no! It’s okay to have a different perspective, a different opinion. When I have Gary Vaynerchuk on and he says, “I don’t agree with you,” I say, “We’re going to have to agree to disagree, brother, because this is what I think, for better or for worse.”
CREATE A BETTER CONVERSATION
To me, that’s a better conversation and better communication. It’s a better thing than having somebody like a host who is just trying to placate whatever the guest is railroading. This is, by the way, your cue to say, “John, I disagree with everything you just said.” This is your chance.
Brandon Birkmeyer: [00:18:47] You’re putting me in a hard spot there, John. I’ve definitely disagreed with some guests, but you just haven’t said those things yet. Maybe we can find some!
John Lee Dumas: [00:18:53] Well I hope in the future (and you might have done this in the past) you say, I just don’t agree with you.
HAVE VARIED CONTENT
Brandon Birkmeyer: [00:19:01] What I think is interesting in what you’re saying is if you’re out there trying to find your voice, or if you’re out there just talking to yourself, you’re not elevating the conversation.
I think it’s okay to start with just yourself if you’re trying to figure out what your perspective is and how you talk. However you do have to bring someone into that conversation at some point, otherwise you’re talking to yourself.
John Lee Dumas: [00:19:28] I’m glad you said that. I’m going to cut in here because it allows me to disagree with you. I do disagree with that comment. What I agree with is you said that bringing somebody else in brings a whole different aspect of things. It really can elevate the conversation.
At the same time, I love the shows that are Monday Interviews, Thursday Topics where the guest is consistently being a solo voice and just sharing their thoughts.
Sometimes I don’t want to hear an interview where it’s just somebody talking about their life, their ups and downs, and their devastating moments. Just cry me a river…I get it. Everybody’s had a tough life. Let’s get past that, and let’s get to the good stuff.
That’s why sometimes I love topic-based episodes where it’s just meat. It’s just a host sharing their well-formed thoughts. I think that those can be great shows and they can add a lot of value.
I do like them both. My show for the most part is interview-based, frankly because I enjoy having conversations more than having to sit down and come up with what would be a topic-based show. It’s not my strength.
POINT THE SPOTLIGHT ON YOU SOMETIMES
Brandon Birkmeyer: [00:20:34] Bringing some personal discussions into our business is something that we all can do a little bit more of, especially if you’re a solo company. If you’re a service-based company, you’re the face of your company, and giving people a little bit of yourself has proved valuable. Do you get to do that in what you’re doing as well?
John Lee Dumas: [00:21:10] Not as much as I like to, which is why I like the idea of what you’re talking about. When you’re the host of a podcast and you’re interviewing somebody, your goal and your job are to shine the spotlight on them.
Whereas, you’re an authority figure. You’re an influencer. You should be able to shine a spotlight on yourself as well. That can bring you closer and build you up in the eyes of your listener much faster and quicker as an authority figure.
MARKET STRATEGY STARTS WITH YOUR AVATAR
Brandon Birkmeyer: [00:21:40] A valuable piece you gave me last time we spoke was this idea of someone’s first marketing strategy. I’d like to ask you the same question for the entrepreneurs out there who are just getting started and figuring out how to structure this communication with their people. What do you do first?
John Lee Dumas: [00:22:04] That’s a big question. The first thing you need to do is know the avatar, the perfect listener of your podcast, a perfect viewer of your show, the perfect reader of your blog, whatever that might be.
The first thing you need to do is to know your avatar. After that, everything goes to what would my avatar wants?
If you know who your avatar is and their pain points, obstacles, challenges or struggles, everything else revolves around that. It makes it all so much easier. That’s my advice.
Are you hoping to start your podcast soon?
Great! Check out my 10 Podcasting Ideas for Beginners to help get you started!
GUEST LINKS:
Entrepreneurs On Fire – https://www.eofire.com/
Podcasters’ Paradise – https://podcastersparadise.com/
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Talk soon!