Today’s guest is someone I have really wanted to talk to for a while, and we’re going to be talking about fandom together. His name is David Meerman Scott, and he’s got a book that recently came out called Fanocracy.
David is an internationally acclaimed marketing and sales strategist, author, and keynote speaker. Now he’s here talking about how fandoms can be built into the community, into the fabric of your business so that you can figure out how to connect better with your customers, build your stronger brands and businesses, and move them forward.
WHY YOUR BRAND NEEDS FANS
Brandon Birkmeyer: The idea we’re going to talk about today comes from your new book, Fanocracy, Turning Fans Into Customers And Customers Into Fans.
What is Fanocracy and why is it important?
David Meerman Scott: For a little bit of backstory, I’ve written 11 books. Fanocracy is my 11th. Most of my earlier books were about online marketing. My most famous book called The New Rules of Marketing and PR originally came out in 2007. It is now in the sixth edition, has sold 400,000 copies in English, and is in 29 languages from Albanian to Vietnamese.
PEOPLE ARE EAGER FOR HUMAN CONNECTION
People listen to me when it comes to online marketing. However, I’ve spoken with thousands of people over the last five years, and I’m consistently hearing from people that they’re getting disappointed with so many companies who are doubling down with things like span and bots, and just ways of communicating that aren’t human.
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I believe that the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of superficial online communications at a time when we’re just so eager for true human connection.
Many of us have human connections in our personal lives with things that we’re fans of. I recognized that there’s an opportunity to take this idea of fandom and make it a business prescription.
CREATE A FANDOM BY RELEASING CONTROL
Brandon Birkmeyer: There are nine steps that you guys identify in terms of how to create this idea of a Fanocracy. I’m a huge fan of community building around your business. Two of the steps in that approach that stood out to me that I’d love to ask you about seemed valuable and actionable.
The first was to let go of your creations and the second was to break down barriers. Can you talk a little bit about what it means to let go of your creations first?
David Meerman Scott: Absolutely. We all have ways that we relate to the things that we’re a fan of. As fans, we feel ownership over the things that we’re a fan of. Not just things like The Grateful Dead or other personal things that we’re interested in, but also the way that we use our mobile device or the car that we drive, most anything.
We consumers don’t want to be told how to engage with a brand. We want to engage in the way that we’re comfortable with. What we identified and the prescription that we offer to all kinds of companies, big and small and tiny, is to let people share their fandom in the way that they want.
CONTROLLING YOUR FANDOM LIMITS HOW THEY CONNECT
I’ll give you an example. Adobe makes Photoshop software. They are very particular about the way you’re allowed to use the word “Photoshop”. You have to put “®”, after it. Photoshop® software, you are not allowed to say something was photo-shopped. You must say this document was manipulated using Adobe® Photoshop® software.
It’s kind of ridiculous because people who are fans of Adobe® Photoshop® software feel like they’re being talked down to when they’re told that you cannot communicate that way. There are a whole lot of fan sites, about people who are really interested in digital art. They use Adobe products, including Photoshop to create that art.
By saying to them, “No, you can’t talk this way,” it absolutely limits the way that those people become fans, actively discouraging fandom. The opposite is that you need to just let people go with it. I’ll give you an example of how you can just let people go with it.
Let people use the language that they want to use. Even if you believe it’s wrong or your public relations people (if you’re a bigger company) believe that it’s wrong. Just let it go. Let people communicate in any way that they want.
GIVE YOUR FANS WAYS TO PROMOTE YOU
Brandon Birkmeyer: If you go in with the idea that that’s what is going to happen, you can set that up and give them the tools. Potentially you can lead them down the road by saying, “We want to hear your feedback. Maybe you love the garlic knots at this restaurant.”
Give them the tools so that they can promote that or take a funny picture of it. Whatever the thing is you, if you lead them down the road and encourage it, you might actually create something or it creates its own thing. Maybe it’s not the garlic knots, and they say “No garlic knots. We actually love the spaghetti!”
David Meerman Scott: That’s absolutely right. Absolutely. Something as simple as sharing on Instagram, that’s exactly right. You make it easy for people to share those things. We could really geek out on the different aspects, what we define as curative fandom and transformational fandom.
2 KINDS OF FANDOM THAT GO HAND IN HAND
Curative fandom is a fandom where people really dig into the idea of the officialdom around that fandom, like statistics and data and the official line. For example, major league baseball statistics, how many home runs are they hit, and so on. Then you’ve got fantasy baseball, which is a transformational fandom around the same thing.
You’ve got the non-fiction history about Alexander Hamilton with all the facts and the data. Then you’ve got a race bent retelling of Hamilton in the form of a rap play. This is now one of the most popular plays in the United States, of course, Hamilton, which is a transformational form of fandom.
The idea that you’ve got one aspect of fandom or another aspect of fandom, neither is right nor wrong. You should celebrate both.
PRODUCTS AND CONTENT GIVE PEOPLE FREEDOM
Brandon Birkmeyer: I think it’s beneficial too if you have a product that lives in the physical world, something they can take with them. It can be that experience is unlimited in terms of what they can do with those products.
Also, if you are a business that revolves around content, content is part of your business. Suddenly you could see all these different ways in. I love the idea that you have the freedom to let it evolve in its own way and create its own kind of world if you will.
David Meerman Scott: That’s exactly right. Give people freedom. We didn’t use those words, but that’s a great way to describe it.
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LET YOUR FANDOM BEHIND THE SCENES
Brandon Birkmeyer: Now this idea of breaking down barriers. Can we dig into that one a little bit?
David Meerman Scott: Yeah, sure. The idea of breaking down barriers is how can you let people into your inner sanctum? How can you give them a peek at something that they’re not normally able to see? How can you make them an insider?
We’ve got a bunch of examples that we wrote about. A couple that just immediately come to mind is, for example, a restaurant can provide very special opportunities for people to perhaps have a chance to work with the chef and learn how a dish is prepared.
Reiko and I actually went to a restaurant where they had one table that was set up in the kitchen. It’s called the chef’s table in the kitchen. You can enjoy a meal literally in the kitchen, watching them prepare those meals.
OPEN UP YOUR DOORS
One of my favorite examples of this concept is Grain Surfboards. There is a Grain Surfboard right there in the corner of my office. Grain Surfboards is a wooden surfboard manufacturer. They’re based in York, Maine.
You can buy a grain surfboard. Go into their showroom, pick one out, bring it home or order one online. However, they’ve got two other really remarkable ways that you can buy their surfboards.
Now, these are wooden surfboards that are built using the boat-building technique, very proprietary, very unique. They’re the only company that does it this way. They’ve patented it, but they’ve opened up so much that they’ll sell you a kit.
It’s their proprietary methodology, but they’ll show you exactly how to do it. What I did was I went to their shop in York, Maine, for four days and did a build-your-own-surfboard course where you actually work in their factory.
TRUST THE PROCESS
They tell you exactly how to make the surfboard. Most companies would say, “We’re not going to do that because people learn exactly how we do it, and they might copy our idea.”
Grain Surfboards said, “No, it’s more important for us to build fans. The way we’re going to build fans and make money by selling more kinds of surfboards is to sell these kits and also to allow people to come to our shop and learn alongside us how to build those surfboards.”
CREATING A FANDOM IS ESSENTIAL
Brandon Birkmeyer: Where did that come from? Why is that important that we let people in to see behind the scenes and to see some of our processes? I like that it’s a new way for businesses who think they don’t know how to create content so they show them behind the scenes, but why does that help?
David Meerman Scott: There are a number of different factors going on here. Number one, it helps people to make them feel like they’re an insider or they know something that others don’t. They have an experience that others don’t.
I’m a big live music fan. Some bands have a backstage meet-and-greet pass that you can get. Of course, if you know the band, you can get one, but there are often ways to buy one.
A regular ticket is $59, but if you pay $159, you get a chance to go backstage, meet the band, and get a picture. That’s an experience that people really enjoy. Yes, the band makes a little bit more money, but the benefit is then people share that selfie. They’ll come back for more. They’ll buy your album when it comes out. They’re a fan for life.
THE SCIENTIFIC PROCESS
There’s actually a very particular neuroscience thing going on when you are physically in the presence of people at a company. In the case of Grain Surfboards, for example, or the restaurant that I mentioned or a backstage meet and greet, when we trust another person, it’s the neurons in our brain that are firing.
They’re saying that when those people are in close proximity to us, the human emotional bond is much stronger than if they’re far away or if we don’t have a chance to be in proximity with them at all. By bringing people together, you’re sharing a human emotional level that’s impossible without bringing people physically together.
There is an aspect of it called mirror neurons that we’re doing right now, you and me, by virtually being together. We’re not actually together, but I feel like I know you a little bit better now that we’re doing this podcast. That comes from this idea of mirror neurons.
For organizations that can’t bring people physically together, it’s possible to use the same neuroscience technique by doing exactly what you and I are doing right now, which is having a conversation.
WE TRUST PEOPLE WE “KNOW”
For those of you listening in on audio, we’re actually also on video right now, so we can see one another. By having that conversation, I feel as though I know you better because I see you in a way that feels like we’re actually together.
That’s why you feel like you know people who are movie stars and people who are television stars because you’ve seen them virtually in an up-close way. Your brain tricks you into believing that you actually know them personally. Your emotions are firing in that you think you know that person.
However, it’s way more powerful if you’re literally in their physical presence because then there are all sorts of other subtle cues that we humans pick up from things like scent and the subtle movements of eyes, whether the pupils are dilated and all sorts of other cues that are going on.
When we are able to experience that, we bond in a way that we can’t help. It’s a natural human reaction that goes back many thousands of years. We learned these ideas from neuroscientists. As a way to grow fans, that’s something you can do.
Something as simple as inviting people to your office when a telephone call could do, meet them in person. Invite them to the lunch, bring them out onto the golf course. There’s a lot to be said for that kind of human interaction.
CONNECT WITH DAVID
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